An important speech is being given about now. It’s being delivered as part of the Barnardo’s lectures by the children’s charity’s CEO Martin Narey in the Duke of Wellington hall in Westminster, and this is what he’s saying:
It saddens me that the probability is that had Baby P survived, given his own deprivation, he might have been unruly by the time he had reached the age of 13 or 14.
At which point he’d have become feral, a parasite, a yob, helping to infest our streets. The response to his criminal behavior would have been to lock him up – but we believe these children deserve better.
The point is, of course, to shock. And I hope it does. I hope (forlornly, I expect) that everyone who commented on the overloaded Lib Dem Voice thread last week gets to hear about this speech. Everyone was so sure, weren’t they. They always are in cases like Baby P. So sure they knew what the rights and wrongs of the case were. So sure the killers deserved to be tortured, executed or sterilised themselves. So completely sure that they, the outraged moral majority, were nothing like the killers that they dehumanised them into evil monsters – just to make the point. They’re not like us. It’s ok to kill them.
And these are, as a rule, the very same morally unshakeable types who talk about feral yobs, and what should be done to them – locking up, beating up, state-sponsored harrassment by the police encouraged by the Home Secretary. They’re just as sure about all that as they are about Baby P. Feral yobs are victimisers, Baby P was a victim. And never the twain shall meet. Will anyone who called for the sterilisation, torture, execution etc of Baby P’s killers be brought up even slightly short by this speech? Be made to actually think for a moment about cause and effect, about abuse and damage, the possible relationship between this feature of society and that feature of society? Or will they stay wrapped up in the cotton wool of moral righteousness and refuse to see a connection between victim and victimiser?
As it happens, the possibility that Baby P might well have grown up this way crossed my mind as soon as I saw his picture and read more about him, placed him in some kind of physical context. Tottenham, unstable family, Irish name. Anyone who has ever lived in North London can add all that together without trouble.
I have, of course, learnt not to say things like that out loud in the wrong place (LDV is rarely the wrong place for this sort of thing, but it was on that occasion). I remember, as a very small Head of State, watching some particularly harrowing news footage with my father of some children displaced by war – Sudan/Ethiopia, I imagine it would have been. My father was suitably stricken with horror when I said, “They’re just the soldiers of the future.” “How can you say that?” he said. Looking back now, I shudder at what a ghastly, unempathetic little child I must have been. How did I say that? I didn’t understand the relationship between victim and victimiser myself then, of course – what I presumably meant as some sort of judgement was actually just a statement of fact. But what’s more terrifying is, I was probably right. As a child, I could state what an adult couldn’t.
At the moment, the only concrete mass-movement outcome from the Baby P case that I’m aware of is a plan to release balloons in Downing Street on 3 December and demand “justice” for Baby P (I’ve seen odd mentions of this in internet forums but I can’t find anything official). I could have wept when I heard about it. “Something horrible has happened! YOU sort it out! Here are some balloons!” Oh hoo-bloody-ray. What in the name of arse, assuming even the limpest grasp of sub-logic, do the proponents of this plan think it’s going to achieve, apart from suffocating a few blameless small animals who will be caught in the wrong park at the wrong time? What problem is it meant to solve, what aspect of child abuse is it meant to explore? Why the hell do we tolerate this moronic morality of the emotions?
It’s rare for me, in my carefree republic, to advocate force for anything ever, particularly force of the mind. But on this occasion, I am angry, and I do think there are things people should be forced to consider – uncomfortable things that don’t involve releasing a single balloon. They need to be forced to confront the paradox of elevating Baby P to the status of the angels on the one hand, and society’s collective appetite for locking up so-called irredeemable children from similar backgrounds on the other. So well done, I say, to Martin Narey for being in a position to say the unsayable, and saying it in spite of the baying of moral certitude. A pity more politicians don’t do that.
November 26, 2008 at 9:45 pm
One inane call for Martin Narey’s resignation coming up, probably Daily Express, probably Friday (they won’t think of it overnight).
I’m hopeful for the cathartic possibilities of mass balloon-letting, however. If the ancient Hebrews had only had balloons, Leviticus 16 might be hilarious.
November 26, 2008 at 11:11 pm
An Irish surname?
My maternal grandmother had the surname, “Brennan” (a matter of great embarrassment to the family, they being militant Protestants).
Did my parents kill me?
Seems unlikely.
Am I a yob, parasite and/or feral?
Well, I’m not earning as much as Martin Narey.
Tottenham?
My great aunt (born 1867) lived in Noel Park, from her marriage up until her death in the early 1950s.
Did she kill her children?
Apparently not.
Did they turn out yobs, parasites and/or feral?
Sorry to disappoint.
One became a business tycoon while another married a rich man from Surrey.
Having said all that, my great grandfather made a 24 year-old woman pregant when he was a youth of 16; and my grandfather ran away to sea when he was 12. So there’s yobbishness and ferality in the genes.
November 26, 2008 at 11:59 pm
[...] at the People’s Republic Of Mortimer has a simply superb post on the ‘Baby P’ case, and in particular on how the same people who are calling for the reintroduction of capital [...]
November 27, 2008 at 1:09 am
Every single episode of South Park is about this. The mob, having an insane reaction to something, making it worse, fixing nothing and completely, completely missing the point.
November 27, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Bravo! It’s always the way though, because dead children are largely totemic. They haven’t had time to do anything or be anyone – that in itself is one part of the tragedy – but specifically they haven’t had time to do anything wrong. They can be anything you want them to be, a sort of everychild. I maintain that the whole Baby P story is really a parable/fable that just – and horrifically, don’t get me wrong – happens to be true.
It has all the ingredients of a good moral panic; a taboo central tenet that defies opposition (how could anyone be other than utterly appalled?) folk devil protagonists that threaten societal values (not just not-hurting-kiddies but also motherhood – I believe that in the modern Inferno the eighth circle of hell is reserved for mothers lacking matriarchal feeling, the ninth for paederasty), and an empty vessel at the centre in whom the public can vest their platonic ideal of trusting, innocent childhood.
Think I’m being cynical? Not as cynical as the army of people that have seized on this as a way to expiate their own moral uncertainty: “I may not be perfect, but as I am disgusted by that I must be on the side of the angels.”
In any case, this isn’t about the actual flesh-and-blood poor terrified kid that was murdered – though it probably should be. It’s about the media simulacrum of a child that is pushed in our faces. Which, conveniently in a way, doesn’t even have a name.
Faugh. Need a drink and the sun’s nowhere near the yardarm.
November 27, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Well said. I also had the same reaction as you to the blue balloons launch. It’s almost as pointless as saying “join this Facebook group NOW to stop the bad weather”.
I am worried that so many people think they can change things from the comfort of their own home. It’s like: Press 1 to vote X out of the jungle, press 2 to vote Y out of the house; 3 to make Z a popstar; 4 to solve world poverty and 5 to stop climate change.
And, if I may step ever so tentatively onto dangerous ground, that could include bloggers who don’t get out and about campaigning at street level! Fx: ducks for cover.
November 27, 2008 at 2:56 pm
It’s the herding impulse encouraged and in may cases instigated, by the media that is the real danger in all of this, in my opinion. The place of Islam in terrorism, the hounding of the BBC and the Baby P case are all prime examples.
It’s a simplistic view of events that is generated; appealing to the easily swayed and attractive to those in search of a ‘final solution’.
November 27, 2008 at 4:04 pm
If Baby P’s mother had said when pregnant that she couldn’t cope & wanted an abortion, would the Daily Mail have wanted to force her to give birth to a baby she didn’t want & couldn’t care for?
You can talk all you like about adoption. But as horrible as having an abortion must be, having one’s own flesh & blood brought up by strangers must be worse.
It was really, finally brought home to me by the Sheffield case. The horrifying abuse to which he subjected those little girls was barely seen as cause for concern, because it was regarded as normal! That is why so many borderline “parents” are allowed to keep their children, that & the usual Clarksonite knobheads insisting that parents should have an almost total right to do whatever to their children & anything else is “political correctness gone mad” & other fucking moronic phrases.
You made an excellent point when you said that people who see children showing signs of abuse, or other problems which are occuring, should raise their concerns. If those who commit “minor” offences are confronted, they won’t feel as if they can indulge their obscene whims behind closed doors.
November 27, 2008 at 5:18 pm
You made an excellent point when you said that people who see children showing signs of abuse, or other problems which are occuring, should raise their concerns. If those who commit “minor” offences are confronted, they won’t feel as if they can indulge their obscene whims behind closed doors.
all very well, but what are the signs of ‘minor’ abuse? Bruises? I hope not; every family in Britain would be investigated and even if you personally don’t mind that – I would – the cost would be unbearable (literally) and all the genuine cases would slip through in the midst of all the traffic. I was covered in bruises until the age of about 12 and so were nearly all my friends. We fell over, we fought, we climbed trees and fell out of them, gashing our heads. And the problem is that had social services got involved and interviewed my parents then they would have been assumed to be lying, wouldn’t they?
November 27, 2008 at 7:21 pm
I didn’t mean that, I meant the specific warning signs, such as the fact that this girl had repeatedly been having babies with the same man & this was causing problems for the mother & the children. Things like that seem to be common, which is why no one was outraged this time.
Alarm bells should have been set ringing several times in the Sheffield case & the Baby P case, but it must be so common for inadequate parents, abusive husbands & what have you to behave in this way, & for it to go unchallenged because the government is afraid that “it might offend someone”.
It might fucking well offend me if the government doesn’t protect the vulnerable, but apparently being politically correct & kowtowing to anyone who shouts loud enough counts for more than the hard work of fighting for liberalism.
November 27, 2008 at 7:48 pm
HurraH!!!
Build the gas chambers. Prepare the ovens. The lower ceberal evolved creatures destroy their own offspring. Isn’t that good? All the reguretated prejudices come out of all the woodwork like cockroaches and woodlice. Feeding on the need to give comment. Irish, Area, Lower Class family etc etc.
God!! When cn we crawl out the gutter. Not with the Jackboot of middleclass comment and weight of social experimentation on our necks and lives That is for certain.
LibDems remain the same. Have been trying to raise and change the value of the lower class and working community. Have 4 degrees and a professional qualification. But when raising the plight of violence on estates told by LibDem/Ecologist that is does not matter as we are next to primates. Also said it did not matter to sexuall rape our children as it is not as if “those kind of people” are use to anyone else.
I am an ex-abused with an educated and lovely intelligent mum and bstd of a father. Got out myself. But did you help? No, just gave me one explanantion after another as to why my abuse was a natural social factor to you.
LibDems no wonder you are in a minority and alwats will be. You represent no one but yourselves. Went to a Eco- Environment open meeting recently. Got stopped at the door and told it as not for the likes of people like me. Because I had a working class acent assumed I was a bum off the street.
Experiment on us but never give us our respect. We are disposable. Up the Revolution. Time for another Peasant’s Revolt. You be watt Tyler. I’ll be Madame De’Fage/ You build the quilotine and i’ll start knitting.
Let the community and working class sort out their own problems. We are not all useless, drunken, drug addled slags and scum. Honest!!!
Baby P. Your responsibility because of your prejudices. The naivity and pig ignorance coming from the professionals is insulting but so common.
J
November 27, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Oh, do fuck off.
November 27, 2008 at 8:29 pm
J, it sounds to me like you’re on a hobby horse entirely of your own making. It’s got nothing to do with anything I’ve written here. If you had a bad experience with a particular group of Lib Dems, then unlucky you and I hope they were all kicked out of office for failing to help you. And I hope the twats who turned you away from a public meeting suffer too (probably by having their campaign fail for lack of broad-based support, by the sound of it).
BUT all that has got nothing to do with me. If you honestly think after reading this post that my main point is to be some snarky middle class person having a go at Irish people in Tottenham then you’re completely deluding yourself and I happen to find it fucking offensive. Am I not allowed to care then, because I’m middle class? You actually WANT me not to care, don’t you, because that fits with your preconceptions.
To recap, if you can be bothered to actually listen this time, my whole point is that we ought to be doing MORE to prevent things like Baby P happening, recognising where the problems start and acting on them early, rather than knee-jerking about yobs/murderers/whatever it happens to be after the fact. Nor releasing bloody balloons. THAT’s my point. God alone knows where all your Nazi/Peasants Revolt/whatever stuff came from.
Like it or not, I appear (from your description) to want the same things as you do. I don’t want problems to be left to fester in families. You must have gone to that eco-meeting because you cared about that stuff. Well, so do I.
So either listen to what argument I’m trying to make about children and how we see them and respond to it OR just ignore everything I’ve written, dive off the deep end and have a good rage at your own imaginary version of me, but the latter won’t get you anywhere, either with me or in life in general. Your choice.
November 27, 2008 at 8:45 pm
“I hope the twats who turned you away from a public meeting suffer too (probably by having their campaign fail for lack of broad-based support, by the sound of it).”
Most likely this never occured. Having a very strong Stoke accent has never held me back in any kind of liberal company. I have taken the trouble to inform & educate myself, just like the working-class pioneers of the 19th century who established the working men’s clubs & friendly societies & tried to make good their lack of formal schooling.
Accordingly, I have been welcomed by all kinds of liberal gatherings, many of which were full of people of equally modest origins.
I am always confused when the right say that it is hypocritical for priviliged people to express an interest in the welfare of the worst off. It must be because they assume people only act in their own interest & they can’t understand any other motive for doing things.
I don’t understand this breed of chipper, anti-intellectual Tories who think standards are a form of namby-pamby liberal elitism, & seemingly want a British Sarah Palin to emerge. It is incomprehensible.
November 27, 2008 at 8:47 pm
In my humble opinion, dumbing down belongs to the right far more than the left. It should be resisted.
November 28, 2008 at 3:47 am
“A feral, parasitic yob?” who knows? maybe, maybe not…are we missing the point? Social services had many opportunities to step in and do something, THEY failed the child. There is something wrong with the system that needs to change, and as a civilized society it is our moral obligation to ensure that our voices are heard in support of HUMAN rights. This child had human rights which no one seemed to advocate for him when he was alive. So now many gather on social networks such as facebook for justice, good for them, whether they do something active or not, it will get enough publicity that will perhaps bring enough attention to the problem. Sure there will be many who express vengeful justice, but many are just venting their rage to anyone who is willing to listen (i admit this is one way i work out my grief and not everyone i know in my social circle is willing to talk about such a horrific, shocking incident). and what am i doing now? Venting my frustration, my grief for this little boy who was tortured for months before finally finding peace in death. So, a feral parasitic yob? don’t be so quick to deflect the real problem at hand
November 28, 2008 at 9:06 am
This child may have been heading down the wrong path in life, but I hardly think this is the right attitude to show towards them.
Children are not at fault for being abused and to stigmatise them after years of deprivation and suffering seems pretty pointless.
November 28, 2008 at 10:17 am
Am I putting you on, or are you putting me on, LFAT? Have I genuinely misunderstood where your comment is aimed? Maybe I have.
Narey is saying it to deliberately make people think. HE does not favour castigating anybody as “feral yobs”. He’s saying it because IF Baby P had survived and IF he had grown up to be what the Daily Mail calls a “feral yob” (not unlikely) then the very same people who are currently weeping over his death would be castigating him for being a yob. THAT’S the tragedy! That’s why people like Tories should STOP castigating ALL the so-called “feral yobs”! Because they’re children like Baby P! Do you get it?
November 28, 2008 at 10:37 am
I didn’t mean that, I meant the specific warning signs,
ok, first off, apology: had just taken call from a client being shitty and was letting off steam slightly. Also, years back a good friend of mine’s younger brother fell down the stairs and Leeds (I think) social services decided that the parents were abusive and tried their damndest to get him taken into care. In their contemptible view, the fact that the parents were being defensive further implicated them, and the fact that they (parents) came up with ‘excuses’ for each ‘new’ bruise proved that they were compulsive liars. Yes, specific warning signs often seem to be ignored, inexplicably.
LibDems no wonder you are in a minority and alwats will be. You represent no one but yourselves….Let the community and working class sort out their own problems. We are not all useless, drunken, drug addled slags and scum. Honest!!!
I’m not a LibDem. Not by a country mile. So, far as I’m concerned, fine. Retreat into insularity, ‘sort out your own problems’ and rule yourselves. Long as I don’t have to pay for it I couldn’t give a tinker’s fuck.
But did you help? No…Have 4 degrees and a professional qualification.
so, ‘yes’ then. Unless you did all of them at Buckingham University.
November 28, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Excellent post, ignore the trolling tosser who can’t understand irony, or indeed much else. Badly brought up kids are indeed a pain in the arse and sometimes downright scary (I live in central Gateshead) but
Martin Narey is right to point out that they are human beings who can be helped. Helping them probably wouldn’t cost as much as a few Titan jails, either. Pity our wonderful free press has not the slightest interest in helping anyone – certainly not British society. Indeed, if you look at that bigoted loon Dacre at the Mail you might suspect he was in the pay of an enemy power, as his antics are far more socially corrosive than ten thousand little tearaways setting wheelybins alight.
November 28, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Quite right, valdemar. Only yesterday I was thinking that it’s a bit rich of them to spout vaguely racist shite about how “we celebrate Christmas, not Winterval” when they are the ones who make a mockery of what Christ stood for & pretty much nail him to the cross anew, every day.
I myself am not a believer in any religious teaching, so I don’t go round pretending to be a follower of Christ as Dacre et al do. They should look in the mirror before trying to wind up left-liberals, under the assumption that anything which does so is automatically good.
November 28, 2008 at 9:18 pm
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss thousands of years of accumulated folk knowledge, asquith, even though I wouldn’t myself go so far as to treat it as gospel…
*tumbleweed*
November 28, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Sockpuppet,
It is “tinker’s spit”, which is rhyming slang for “s**t”.
Alix,
You haven’t thus far attempted to justify your imputation that having an Irish surname is an indicator of yobbishness and ferality. As I say above, my grandmother had one, and she was a saintly lady who attended the Brethren meeting every Sunday and stopped her husband throwing too much of his money away on drink. Neither of her two sons turned out to be feral yobs, nor did any of her male descendants.
When Jim Callaghan became Prime Minister in the summer of 1976, one of my relatives said to me: “It’s a sad day for Britain when we have a Prime Minister with a Papish name.” (Callaghan was in fact a Baptist.)
Shouldn’t we leave such attitudes behind?
November 29, 2008 at 12:20 am
Er, yeah, why is the Irish name significant? Is it a London thing that I just don’t get from my grim Northern perspective? Up here the phone book is full of Murphys, Rooneys, Regans etc. On Sunday I’ll be having a drink with a seriously lapsed Irish Catholic. So what?
Sesenco, ironic factoid: Jim Callaghan’s dad changed his name from Curraghan because it sounded too Irish.
November 29, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Sesenco. I suggest that your objection is akin to saying that it’s racist to point out that young black men are more likely to be stopped and searched than young white men.
My observation is based on my working knowledge of North London and its history. I’ve worked in public services and the third sector in Haringey for the past couple of years (including at an Irish Housing Association).
If you know about your grandmother’s life story/community etc then you’ll probably know this: up to, say, twenty years ago, the London Irish were what we’d now call a “troubled minority”, suffering from the same sort of problems that all immigrant groups suffer from – poverty, low skillsets, lack of education, more inclined to be singled out by police etc etc (hopefully this answers Valdemar’s question too – Newcastle and Liverpool had a very similar experience, although possibly longer ago).
This broken-end-of-a-bottle immigrant situation sometimes (as we all know) leads to people making good and sometimes doesn’t. In Sesenco’s grandmother’s case it obviously led to her making good (she is also from a very early stage if immigration – did her parents come over after the potato famine? A fair bulk of the Irish population in North London now is more recently arrived than that – 1950s to 1970s.)
Most of the immigrant situation has obviously now dissipated, and the same problems have moved on to other immigrant groups in North London (notably Turkish and Somali). The North London Irish are still a very strongly self-identifying community, as much as the North London Jewish community, say. There remains, in my experience in Haringey public services, a small minority of London Irish who are still suffering the same problems as other immigrant groups (maybe because they were in the last waves of immigration, I don’t know). So when I saw the name I realised Babby P could belong to that background. It was a context I already knew about.
So when you say “We should be leaving these attitudes behind”, well, I’m not really sure I was displaying an attitude. I was speaking from my experience. You might as well say I’m displaying an attitude (and by implication being racist) when I say that the Somali population of Tottenham is currently suffering all the same problems to a much greater extent.
November 29, 2008 at 4:26 pm
It is fairly undeniable that there are differences between communities on the whole, & that this has more than a bit to do with their cultures. Why else is it that some sets of immigrants have prospered (& many asylum seekers will do so in time) but others sink without trace?
This is why, & I know I will be flayed alive for saying this, there should indeed be some form of points-based system. There are many asylum seekers who could be an asset to this country whilst large numbers of people, immigrant & native alike, are never likely to make any kind of contribution. I do not think there should be a totally open border, I think we should have a more sensible one than we have now. I have known some excellent people be deported who should have been allowed to stay, & complete twats of all races.
You may think from my recent posts that I am becoming right-wing. But I don’t think so, I think I am still on the side of liberalism rather than a free for all in which the most vicious & unscrupulous will take control.
Johann Hari understands this, & is strengthening my left-liberal case against the offence-takers & politically correct. I think I am a bit less pro-immigrantion than him or Alix. But I believe basically that we are all the same & should be treated in the same way, held to the same responsibilities & enjoying the same rights.
November 29, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Oh, & speaking of ancestry, I looked up on National Trust Names. My surname & the maiden names of pretty much all my female ancestors, is regional. Many of them are quite heavily concentrated in this city & rare outside it.
Additionally, all the names are correlated with low status. Indeed, both my parents & for that matter myself are working-class by heritage, culture & what we all actually do in terms of our occupations.
Apart from my granddad, who was Polish, & via service in World War 2 ended up in Liverpool, at a random camp in the Staffordshire Moorlands, & then onto a council estate where he began living exactly the same kind of life as the locals (he was a miner).
November 29, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Sockpuppet,
It is “tinker’s spit”, which is rhyming slang for “s**t”.
Every day is, indeed, a school day. I always thought it was “tinker’s cuss”. Prefer “tinker’s fuck” for the alliterative ‘k’ though the assonance you advocate is quite nice too.
November 30, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Alix,
You claimed in your above post that having an Irish surname is an indicator of a propensity to become feral, a parasite and a yob.
Funnily enough, the three recent Irish immigrants I know personally are millionaires and do not have overly high opinions of people who are feral, parasites and yobs.
My grandmother
My maternal grandmother, who had an Irish surname, was born in Dalmellington, Ayrshire, in 1871. Her ancestors came mainly from North Ayrshire, but her paternal great-grandfather was a freehold farmer from County Down (and a Roman Catholic). As far as I know, my grandmother’s family identified themselves as Scottish, but not quite – many of them were enthusiastic members of the Orange Order. Alix, people who are feral, parasites and yobs tend not be be very good at running freehold farms.
The mother of Baby P
The lady in question has an English maiden name. She adopted the Irish surname of her husband. According the the “News of the Screws”, her mother is of Irish descent, but I am unable to confirm this. People with strong Irish identity tend not to get married in Registry Offices, which is what Baby P’s mother did.
November 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I regarded the original statement by Alix as fairly uncontroversial. Not quite sure why you’re so enraged over it, Sesenco, or mounting such frenzied attacks on what you think she said/what you want her to have said rather than the actual content of the post & the clarifications.
Are you by any chance a relative of “J”?
It’s a shame because you have been quite agreeable to me in your attacks on the anarcho-libertarian tendency.
November 30, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Clowntime is over,
Frenzied attacks? What? Where?
Who the heck is “J”?
December 1, 2008 at 7:37 am
J left the 11th comment in this very thread, in a strawman style. You were almost as bad in your determination to misrepresent Alix, and Martin Narey.
December 1, 2008 at 9:19 am
p bhohie,
If you are addressing me, I don’t think I have mentioned Martin Narey other than to point to the (likely) fact that he earns more money than I.
December 15, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I stumbled on this thread while I was trying to find a discussion board that was trying to be constructive from the Baby P tragedy rather than call for the public lynching of the parents.
I am quite amused and shocked from what I am reading here.
I myself lived in London for 9 years while I was at university and while on a holiday in Ireland, I decided to stay there and later met my Irish husband.
I think what began as a constructive debate ended up with what a lot of people would refer to as being bigotry.
The fact here is that Baby P’s case has shown the glaring gaps in our system. Baby P would probably have grown up to become a feral parasitic yob, had he survived in that household. Chances are he wouldn’t have survived. The only way he would have had a fighting chance would have been in the social services had done their job. In the best case scenario: he would have been placed in care within a loving family which would have provided him with values and the love he craved.
A child’s personality can be moulded until he/she reaches 6. So Baby P could have been anything, depending on circumstances, he could have been anything, unfortunately, we will never know.
The tragedy here is that society probably failed those that tortured him, but not as badly as it failed Baby P. Now, those that are directly responsible for his death are the products of what modern life has started.
Nowadays, people have forgotten their values. I think that it’s ironic when we are trying to say that migrant communities are those that are the most vulnerable. I’ve lived a long time in London and have seen first hand how a lot of parents just choose to abdicate their responsibilities, especially in broken families. I have seen fathers convincing themselves that the best thing for their child is to be with their mother, regardless of the behaviour of the latter.
We often joke about the misconception about the Irish in the Uk with my husband, especially when Irishmen and Dogs are used in the same sentence. he is Irish, my baby is Irish, I am not. However, what i have found is that family values are what keep things together and this is what I think went into meltdown.
What happens when the instutions that are our support system fall apart?
Family? Social services?
We go into meltdown and have a mtley crew that hangs together because of the wrong reasons and forgets the rules of decency, but most of all forgets the concept of self-respect.
Were they still human? Yes. I think we too often forget that the human being is just another animal, an animal who thinks but an animal nonetheless. In this case, it was sad to see that the thoughts were vicious in nature.
This isn’t about being Irish, or Somalian or god knows wat else, this is the proof that our institutions are in meltdown. Institutions have their own evils, but those can be delat with.
We have created a society where we have no respect for anything, nothing is sacred anymore, we have no respect towards ourselves and no respect for life. Somehow, part of society has moved forward really quickly, creating a brave new world, but we have left behind the likes of Baby P’s mother, and carers.
It’s tragic that people are wanting mob justice: that just won’t fix anything. And regarding the release of the baloons, well, I know it won’t change a thing, but this story has hurt people to their core. It was their way to say goodbye to a little boy they didn’t know.
Mybe now people will realise that we are all responsible for what happened and this is the greatest lesson of this sorry event. We are all responsible, because we have let society become so depersonalised that we forgot who we were leaving behind.
We were leaving behind those that couldn’t catch up, or who couldn’t be bothered to catch up. Of course we should be responsible for them, or should we? I tink this casae shows that we are… Because just because the adults in this case couldn’t be bothered to want anything better for themselves, this doesn’t mean that we should pretend they don’t exist.
I am sure baby P would have wanted something better for himself. His torture started at about when he turned 1. This is the age where babies start being aware of the fact that they need us, this is the age where they are aware that they are a separate entity and they feel the need for comfort and love more than anything. Baby P probably started looking for more affection at this stage, all babies do that. And we all know what he got instead.
I think it’s cruel to condemn him and say that he would have grown up to become a feral parasitic yob. i think that as a society we can do a lot better for children who are in that vulnerable position.
I think that our system is broken and we need to fix it. Not a quick fix, but a proper fix.
I just hope that we do not just forget about this little boy. I was particularly disgusted by the fact that Baby P was wiped out from the surface of the Earth, as if he never existed. I just hope that he is a reminder of how we failed yet again and that this gets people in high and low places to get moving.
The public press has a tendency to jump on any badwagon and then forget about things. This should not be forgotten. It’s not about where you’re from and who your ancestors are. My great grand father was an illiterate immigrant from India. Every single one of his great grandchildren has university education.
So you see: it’s not where you came from, it’s where you’re going. With the right support anything is possible. What our parents are unable to do for us, the other institutions should step in to provide for. That’s their job, it’s their job to make sure that children are not stuck in vicious cycle, for the good of society as a whole.
Baby P’s case is really sad, it’s grief that a whole nation feels, because on some level, we are all responsible for what happened.
December 22, 2008 at 6:14 pm
@ Sesenco on comment 2
You’re being a little literal.
Remember ‘No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs’??
The Irish have constantly been down trodden upon but obv things are not how they are.
Anyway, great post. Agreed.
Why can’t people see the correlation between victim and abuser?
March 29, 2012 at 4:33 am
game key…
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